My Much Delayed MemeTime Response to Sharpest Asp, Part 1 of 3

[lordyellowtail]

Quoting senmut  from her MemeTime entry:

You know that meme that goes around sometimes where you post your five favorite kinks and then five favorite couples, and it's like a wish into the universe to see if anybody will write it for you? Let's make it a little more interactive.

Comment here if you want to play, and I will give you 3-6 couples that I associate with you, and you make an entry in your journal talking about those couples and fics that you wish the universe would write for you.

So, this seems like it should be pretty fun. Comment if you would like to play.

In the meantime, Asp gave me the following:

1. Rogue/Remy
2. Robin/Secret
3. Anakin/Padme

So, let's go do that. These are turning out a bit long, so I'm gonna divide them up into 3 separate posts.

Rogue/Remy
I'm probably going to disappoint Asp a bit here, but I honestly don't have a lot to say about any present incarnation of this ship. It only works for me in certain versions of the X-Men canon. In others, one or both characters are different enough that the chemistry that draws me to them—particularly the juxtaposition of his extreme intellect, bravery, and deep emotional connection with those in the X-Men he considers his friends and family, all covered up by a veneer of devil-may-care bravado and a show of emotional distance that would fool those who don't know him well; and her outward Type A southern belle, action girl, courageous and kind and gentle outer-shell around a battered, wounded, and deeply, crushingly lonely soul. In universes where they're written this way, they put on acts for the world around them, and some of the only people they can't fool are each other (and Logan, but going into that would disrupt the flow of my over-thought ramblings here). They understand and accept the other for everything they are, and love them for it, warts and all. It's only refusal to fully accept their own selves that stalls their relationship. You can't be in love with someone else when you really don't love yourself—not if you want a healthy relationship, at any rate.

All the fun of their banter and the adorableness of their actual relationship aside, they're a pairing that, to properly work, demands that each participant become a stronger person and consciously fight their personality flaws to be together. It's an explicit element of their relationship, when it's usually just implied in other similar relationships. That's somewhat unique, and so it appeals to me a great deal. X-Men: The Animated Series showed me this version of them and got me hooked. The problem is, not every version of them has this dynamic. X-Men: Evolution Rogue and Remy don't feel like what I described above at all. This version of Remy is a much less sympathetic, layered character and comes off more as a grudginingly enjoyable antihero than a loveable rogue to the people around him, with a tenancy to manipulate Rogue's feelings to his advantage when it's fairly obvious nothing will happen between them, if for no other reason than he doesn't sincerely want her. X-Men:TAS Remy was completely devoted to his Rogue, in his own special way. In Evolution, Rogue still has plenty of problems with interpersonal relationships and isolation, but considerable time and energy is given to developing her confidante/heterosexual life partner relationship with her brother, Kurt Wagner. Their relationship is deep and nuanced and complicated and they rely on each other in a way they don't rely on anyone else, in a completely platonic love sort of way.

Having such a well-developed loving sibling relationship in this context is rather refreshing, but it means that there's no hole in Rogue's heart and relationship with those around her that Gambit would usually be the on to fill.

So, the fic I would write and read with them would be anything in the vein of the characterization and sort of relationship they had in X-Men: The Animated Series. At this stage in my life, well into adulthood and still single, long drawn-out will-they-won't-they and Idiot Ball driven relationship obstacles and love triangles for The Dramas don't appeal to me, so I'd not write or want to read any of that. So much Rogue/Gambit material is devoted to getting them together that I want to see them actually be together.

Comments

[senmut]

See, I quit reading the Marvel Titles mostly back when they killed Illyana Rasputin with the Legacy Virus. Noped out as fast as I did DC Comics in more recent years.

So that is the era, leading up to that, which defined for me the Remy/Rogue I loved (with a side of that complicated Joseph/Magneto-clone). Basically from the launch of the unadjectived X-Men up to Illyana's death.

AND I LOVED THEM. But I think I loved them with a side of the Moonlighting Curse. The chemistry/banter/innuendo was the hook, and I didn't WANT an on-panel endgame between them (as opposed to me and Storm/Forge, for instance, that got bitterly thwarted somewhere in the midst of that.)

In Evolution, Rogue still has plenty of problems with interpersonal relationships and isolation, but considerable time and energy is given to developing her confidante/heterosexual life partner relationship with her brother, Kurt Wagner.

Okay, I melted a little just reading that line. Because my all time favorite What If was the one where Mystique did raise them both... the brother/sister dynamic is near and dear to my heart.

[lordyellowtail]

Confession time: I lived in a small town without a comic book shop when I was little, and then when we moved to a city I didn't have the disposable income to buy comics--and lived in a scary part of town where there wasn't a comic book shop you wanted a little kid going.

So my exposure to actual X-Men comics is basically ... 3 issues from the 1990s, and one of them was a What If? Animated X-Men and the movies are all I've got to work with.

So I'm not really familiar with the Remy/Rogue you're describing, unless it's like X-Men:TAS, but I feel your words. That was your version of those characters and as much as you can enjoy newer versions (or not), the newer ones will never be yours the same way.

As much as X-Men:TAS will always have a special place in my heart, and while I liked the way it presented several characters better, on balance I think I preferred Evolution's overall presentation. I think it's 'cause in Evolution they're actual teenagers, mostly, not a team full of late 20s/early 30s people and Logan and Charles. Evolution was also willing to deviate substantially from canon when it needed to, which made it accessible and avoided the problems a lot of adaptation series have when they try to stick to close to canon and it creates weaknesses in otherwise great storylines.

(Barry/Iris on The Flash TV I'm looking at you.)

I've got money and access now, but honestly have no idea where to start with getting into the X-Men, or even if I want to given my general distaste for what Marvel is doing with 616 the last several years. I'd appreciate your opinion/suggestions.

I want to see that What If with Momstique now. ;)

But yes, as I've gotten older I've started enjoying more and more strong platonic brother/sister relationships/strong platonic, closer-than-blood friendships, etc., to a degree I didn't when I was younger. I still love me the (weird) shipping, but having friends who are your true companions really speaks to me now the way it didn't when I was closer to 20 than 30.

[senmut]

That's the MomStique... a bit warped, but that series could be quirky.

I honestly would not know what to recommend to you. Of the X-Titles, the original run of X-Men, EXcalibur, some of Uncanny X-Men, some of X-Force all held me at different points. And I have touched very little of Marvel in the last two decades it feels like.

(My exception to reccing any thing is DO find Age of Apocalypse if you like tangled AUs)

I think there is a fine line between adapting trademark points and storylines to new media, and winding up with something completely unrecognizable despite shared names. (Arrow, I just can't/won't because too invested in certain comic book runs, yet I accepted the Oliver Queen of Smallville). Some Adaptations rule my soul (Batman: The Animated Series and most of the Timm/Dini/McDuffie/Romano driven series) while others leave me cold (Nolan Verse). And I can't even pin what makes them work/fail.

[lordyellowtail]

(Icon is for cracky AUs and bizarre adaptation decisions.)

Love the cover, and that it stars Rogue, but--Mystique, please dress your son in something less hobo-chic. I also notice Rogue isn't wearing gloves. Fascinating.

(My head canon is that Rogue actually has some sort of undetected brain damage that keeps her from being able to turn her powers off, similar to Scott. Except it's something more subtle and Charles Xavier missed it somehow.)

I've always wanted to read Age of Apocalypse--except for the fact Apocalypse is in it. I'm not one of his biggest fans. Boring Invincible Villains don't much do it for me when they're the star because the writers don't do what needs to be done to make things interesting, and Apocalypse storylines tend to suffer from this because he's so calm and lethargic and unthreatened by everything most of the time. It's too easy to make him Evil Gary Stu.

(Lots of people compare him to Darkseid, but at least Superman is in DS' weight class and can actually engage him in a contested battle under most circumstances. DS doesn't give me a Gary Stu vibe because he has explorable character flaws, and can be challenged and thwarted like any other villain, just by a very small, select number of top tier heroes. Does that make sense? Am I rambling?)

[lordyellowtail]

I originally wasn't into Arrow for the same reasons, but I am getting into it now because it's connected to The Flash, which I love. I finally was able to click into it by thinking of it as elseworld so different that Bruce Wayne doesn't exist and the universe needed a Batman/Cowl archetype as one of its leading heroes and so adjusted Oliver (this man is probably never Ollie, even to Felicity Smoak) a bit. They're likewise making Barry the Superman-analogue Big Good. Barry and Oliver are the World's Finest in this world, even if they may not be as effective at that as Bruce and Clark would be.

But I can understand being so attached to a character that the change doesn't work for you. I have that with other characters, but not Ollie. Especially since I feel like I can get classic Ollie and Dinah from JLU.

I'm right with you on the DCAU (it is my DCU) and Nolanverse (cold, emotionally dead to me). What I'm starting to call the cwDCU is working for me only because I'm able to frame it as a massive AU. That gives it freedom to move and play to its strengths and be something unique and new.

Barry/Iris on The Flash is trying to force comics canon on a show it doesn't really fit in. Barry's chemistry with Iris is the weakest of his chemistry with any potential love interest, and it's also creepy given how the show is set up, because Iris grew up with Barry as her foster brother, and she's got a live-in boyfriend. I've gotten to the point I've decided it makes the show unfun to watch when it's in focus, and makes everyone involved with it go out of character in unpleasant ways. This is otherwise my favorite superhero show in 10 years, so expect a strongly worded blog post soon on that. ;) I'm taking my time because I need to make sure it comes across as my problem with how the relationship is written, not with the actors.

[senmut]

But I can understand being so attached to a character that the change doesn't work for you. I have that with other characters, but not Ollie.

Ollie was but the tip of the iceberg. It was all the changing done to Dinah/Black Canary/etc. I'd never taken to Smallville's idea for her, and only got to where I could cope with Dinah on Birds of Prey because they also gave me Carolyn Lance with the truer Black Canary vibe (and a side dish of OMG Carolyn/Babs in the subtext).

Some characters, I love AU-ing to oblivion and back again. But some core traits need to stay, even in a full on Mirror Verse. And I couldn't find enough to resonate with me for the entire mess that is the women of Arrow.

[lordyellowtail]

This is how I understand where you're coming from: I had grating, gnashing of teeth reactions to the TV Birds of Prey. So much core characterization (IMHO) just wasn't there or was horrifically twisted.

It just felt like a huge wasted potential parade.

My only deep exposure to Dinah and Ollie and Dinah/Ollie was the Justice League Unlimited animated series. And that version of Dinah was not Dinah at her emotional best. She was inexperienced and immature and annoyed me thoroughly at points--mostly due to how she behaved re: the Huntress/Question relationship. I still loved JLU!Dinah/Ollie (when she wasn't being written poorly because Q and or Huntress were involved), but it doesn't resonate with my soul the way some pairings do.

But as I type this I'm imagining how I would feel if, say, Huntress were re-imagined for live action as a Robin Hood knockoff and Question had some sort of gleaming golden question mark-inspired battle armor. Which is about the degree of off the beaten path Arrow goes with some of its characters.

I would hate that, and understand you want nothing to do with it.

The women of Arrow really are a mess in terms of plot arcs. It's frustrating and one of the reasons I still don't watch regularly.

For all that Barry/Iris makes me growl, The Flash at least shows us an iconic Barry Allen, just really young.

[lordyellowtail]

And moving completely away from adorable brother/sister relationshps...

In the spirit of the new Star Wars movie coming out (in particular, in memory of the incredibly-awkward-in-hindsight make-out session between Luke and Leia), my brain jammed into my awareness a plot bunny for X-Men Evolution wherein things AU early in season 1 and Kurt and Rogue kind of end up having a secret flirting thing when they're on opposing teams that becomes an item-type-thing when they switch sides without ever knowing they're legally related.

Mystique gets drunk a lot and blames other people for her own mistakes, as usual. Well, that second thing is usual. I'm pretty sure she wasn't blitzed during the events of Evo, though it would explain some of her more bizarre decisions, like freeing Cain Marko and then trying to bully him into compliance.

Description: http://lordyellowtail.dreamwidth.org/6205.html

Not sure if I should be proud of myself or annoyed with myself. I'm going with both.

[senmut]

+laughs+

Adding silly SW icon just because. (Dude, I *read* Splinter of the Mind's Eye BEFORE the brother/sister reveal, and feel so bad for the writer, because he all but threw Luke/Leia at the readers, never suspecting...)

[lordyellowtail]

I was born in 1984, so by the time I got into Star Wars the OMGWUT over them being brother and sister had died down to quiet, chuckling, sometimes exasperated whispers. It was a somewhat stale, goofy joke that Weird Al wrote songs about. I can't imagine what it must have been like to be in the fandom when that little reveal actually happened. It must've been wild, and perhaps not always in a good way. ;)

I feel bad for those writers, too. And any writer working in an open canon that gets the crap jossed out of them...